Curse

bunnyblaster · May 10, 2006, 03:21 AM // 03:21

OK. This is a rather drastic suggestion.

Hear me out. As much as some of you like to boast about how great this class is, as a user of a mesmer myself with all quests and missions/bonuses done in tyria, I cannot help but notice that I can do everything a mesmer does with perhaps an e/me or n/me.

The value of our class attribute FAST CAST is very minimal with the skills of the mesmer I find. Furthermore, it is weakened even more by the fact that it encounters diminishing returns. For our inturrupts, we already are blessed with 1/4 second inturrupts. If you have trouble using that, I doubt having 1/4 less 30% (about level 9 fast cast) is going to help you that much.

I understand there are skills like Backfire and diversion (and others i'm sure) that benefit a little from fast cast. But let me ask you how much? Do we use those skills to cast while someone else is in the process of using skills/spells? Or do we use them to prevent their future actions? I think mainly it's the latter. Rarely do I pull off a backfire while someone does a 2 second spell like heal party even with 9 in fast cast. However, spells like Meteor shower (5 second cast time), I usually manage my backfire regardless of fast cast or not. The same applies for diversion. You are not going to get diversion off before someone uses an attack skill unles you get lucky; I doubt fast cast helps much.

I'm sure there are those that find fast cast useful. However, compared to the other classes' main attribute, I think mesmers are by far the weakest. Adding to this is the fact that many of our skills encounter little benefit in going above level 12 attribute like E-Surge and E-Burn. A majority of our other skills encounter minor dmg boosts or duration boosts. Of course, many other professions face the same problem. The point I'm trying to raise is that an N/Me or E/Me can do just about everything a Me/X can do and better because they benefit from their own class attributes and armor a lot more.

My suggestion is 2-fold:
1. Add another base energy regen to make it equal to a total of +5 energy regen. This goes well with the theme that mesmers control their own energy and their opponents energy.

2. Remove the diminishing returns in the fast cast line. Perhaps 3.5% or 4% per attribute level making it 56%-64% at level 16 FC. Just make it balance. But remove the diminishing returns. No other class suffers this with their primary main attribute.

Also let me address those who think Me/E is better at nuking.

For PvE, in order to be a successful nuker, the most effective way of dealing dmg per second and dmg per energy is with meteor shower and the other high energy exhaust causing skills (Rog Invoction [25], Earthquake comes to mind). Yes, there will be those who try it out with lightning and other such unique builds. But they will remain that: situational builds for very specific farming areas and pve areas. For the vast majority of the game, the large nuking spells are what many people play and for a good reason: they deal the most dmg over time and with regards to mana with minimum effort from the players.

If we establish that there is a dependence on those skills, it comes with an inherent problem for the mesmer who lacks the mana pool to support those skills nor the high attribute line that would utilize them properly like the elementalist. The minimum benefit of being able to cast it 1-2 seconds faster (with some of those long casting time skills) is mitigated when the elementalist can dish out so much more.

In PvP, it's a whole different picture. Most ele skills in PvP seem to be short cast time (where FC wouldn't effect it much) or utility skills like blind (again with short cast time). Meteor Shower is not used as often. And when it is used effectively, being able to cast it 1-2 seconds faster is not as a big deal as being able to continually pump out the mana to cast it.

Similar arguments follow for Me/N and N/Me. N/Me has energy control with soul reaping while Me only has fast cast which offers very minimum benefit.

Those are my suggestion. I'm open to others. I am set on my belief that the class as a whole is gimped. Our armor is nothing spectacular and our primary attribute is really pretty bad IMO.

Arcanis the Omnipotent · May 10, 2006, 03:47 AM // 03:47

you know, I usually run FC around 8, and I havent had a single problem you've said..

But if this is a major problem, I must just be lucky.

What if... · May 10, 2006, 03:50 AM // 03:50

The Mesmer’s Inspiration line provides, in my opinion, one of the best forms of energy management in the game, which makes your first suggestion sort of unnecessary. Mesmers were never intended to be a damage dealing class so it’s no surprise the absurdly expensive Elementalist spells are a little taxing on a Mesmer’s energy (Even if a little Inspiration + Glyph of Energy could probably significantly mitigate costs). The Mesmer's strength lies in its manipulative actions taken against enemy warriors and casters. Fast Casting works as a primary for the Mesmer because it enhances the class’s ability to apply a disrupting hex and then quickly move on to their next target without a lull in momentum. It also makes 3 second casts like Diversion and Backfire (that shouldn't be used as interrupts anyway) a lot less unwieldy. Either way I like your second suggestion even though the difference in casting speeds at between 10 and 11 Fast Casting would probably still be negligible.

bunnyblaster · May 10, 2006, 03:55 AM // 03:55

I'm not set on the specifics of my suggestions. I just believe that the class attribute needs improvement in general.

OK, most hexes to my knowledge are 1-2 seconds. I really don't see an advantage in being able to cast it in 0.66-1.33 seconds instead of 1-2 seconds. An elementalist would have more energy and Necros have energy control.

I don't see much that a mesmer can do that other professions cannot emulate by taking mesmer as a secondary profession.

Sab · May 10, 2006, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Fast Casting (in PvE) is a weak attribute compared to the other professions' and I agree it needs a buff. But what buff? +1 energy regen sounds potentially unbalancing and may actually reverse the current problem (a necro might go Me/N for the regen & FC). Perhaps the % could be upped as you mentioned, I have no objections to that, though that alone isn't enough.

I suggest an increase in the number of FC-linked skills. Look at Strength (W/ primary): it's a similarly weak attribute, but is popular because of the skills tied to it. Right now, with Prophecies and Factions combined, there are only four FC skills, and only three of them useful (*cough*). There's definitely room for improvement there. At least give us a "key" skill linked to FC, like Divine Boon/Spellbreaker is to DF, Ether Prodigy is to ES etc. Mantra of Recovery is a bit *meh*, even with the recent buff. I would hardly think someone would go Mesmer primary just for that, or any other FC skill.

And I just have to add, our armour is the most spectacular of all the classes, thank you very much!

Terra Xin · May 10, 2006, 04:33 AM // 04:33

For part 2 I agree with, a minor increase on fast casting will help put us on par with the other professions. The fact we are lacking somewhat is true, but only a little.

LightningHell · May 10, 2006, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Well, let's just say using Backfire and Diversion without Fast Casting. is literally screaming "INTERRUPT ME!" in PvP.

fatboyslimerr · May 10, 2006, 08:23 AM // 08:23

I usually have about 11 or 12 FC on my e-surge/shutdown. The fast casting is vital for my role of energy denial. Being able to unload surge/burn/shame/e-tap in under 5 seconds or something really does make monks shit themselves. If I didn't have fast casting I wouldn't be half as efficient.

I agree a buff would be nice, but I disagree that is not worth being primary mesmer to be able to use runes. 15 or even 16 domination is pretty damn sweet (except for surge and burn

). With shame stealing 15 energy, energy leak making foe lose 25 energy, diversion disabling skill for 59 seconds etc, you get the picture. Personally, I usually take power spike or leak in a build if I can (especially since power spike got pimped to 12 second recharge) and if I came across a mesmer without fast casting I could really mess him up since most mesmer skills burn/surge etc are 1 second which I can easily interrupt with my 1/4 second + 11 FC = 1/6 second ??? casting time interrupt.

If mesmer primary don't work for you dude then be something else. If your a necro and your team has another mesmer, at least you won't die first he he.
I just personally think FC is awesome for super energy denial which is my main style of hard house pain.

Evilsod · May 10, 2006, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Fast Casting seems to help PvE mesmers enough already as it is. I would agree on boosting FC ever so slightly to be on par with Expertise (4% per level). It would hardly make a difference to the PvE mesmers. They either cast too slowly and are easy to interrupt, or cast way to fast. Its like the Banished Dream Riders and there ability to interrupt 1/4 cast spells...

NinjaKai · May 10, 2006, 10:39 AM // 10:39

I've found from experience that mesmer is the only class that seems to work well as a secondary with any primary profession.

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 10, 2006, 11:27 AM // 11:27

I have been chanting forr ages for MoR to last 20 seconds and cost 5 energy...
Well Anet has done the 20 second part; now all we need is the 5 energy...soon the good primary will be ours (looks at ether prodigy, looks at divine boon)

MasterDinadan · May 10, 2006, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Fast Casting is useful to an extent... but there's never any reason to pump a lot of points into it, and absolutely no incentive whatsoever to use any rune except minor!
Definatly needs some more benefits. I think skills is the way to go, and maybe a little more effect on the casting speed. One main problem with the design of this attribute that I see is simply that Fast Casting kind of encourages spell spamming, which isn't really what mesmers are about. Mesmers should analyze the situation and try to cast their spells when needed to get the most effect, rather than just getting off as many spells as they can in a short time... Fast Casting doesn't really help them do that.

Evilsod · May 10, 2006, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Yeah but whats to analyse when your up against an enemy monk at the start of a PvP battle? The only thing there is *spam every energy denial skill i have, get em recharged faster*

fatboyslimerr · May 10, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Lets agree then that fast casting is situational and if ur an e-surger with decent enough energy management that spells like burn and surge become spamable (except for recharge) then you're going to benefit from fast casting more than say a migrane mesmer who, after using migrane, mainly uses 1/4 second cast time spells anyway so they could spend their attribute points more effectively on something else.

I mesmer can work perfectly fine without fast casting, meaning you could quite happily do the job of a mesmer as say a N/Me or a E/Me. I'm actually thinking of making a necro skill denial build with shame and mark of subversion. However if you come up against another mesmer or some kind of freaky interrupt warrior or interrupt ranger, then your going to benefit from fast casting endlessly.

A 4% casting speed per point buff as well as new skills (stolen speed is quite nice) would greatly benefit the fast casting mesmer and encourage more people to be primary mesmers and be able to do that damed awful dance

For fun we could come up with new fast casting spell ideas.
Here is my attempt

--- Arcane Double
Energy cost 5
Recharge 20
--- The next 2 skills that you cast, cast simultaneously (at exactly the same time - first is delayed till you cast the second) and recharge 50% quicker

Am I just being silly or would that be cool ?? Anyone else wanna come up with some rad fast casting skills.

Hella Good · May 10, 2006, 06:45 PM // 18:45

FC is fine as it is. I think it's very useful. I can tell when switching back to my other characters (esp. my Rt) that the difference between cast speed is just huge. FC allows you to sneak a lot of skills that are triggered upon action and that people can realize are coming and cancel the action. This sneakiness is well worth FC. It also makes interrupts hell of a lot harder. I think Mesmers are perfectly fine as is. You don't do much in PvE but in PvP you are king, so... I see no point in discussing this.

MasterDinadan · May 10, 2006, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

--- Arcane Double
Energy cost 5
Recharge 20
--- The next 2 skills that you cast, cast simultaneously (at exactly the same time - first is delayed till you cast the second) and recharge 50% quicker

Am I just being silly or would that be cool ?? Anyone else wanna come up with some rad fast casting skills.

Geez... that would be ridiculous for spike builds. But how would more points in FC make it better?

fatboyslimerr · May 10, 2006, 09:33 PM // 21:33

I dunno I was just thinking of a pretty stupid skill that I would really like to have. I think its recharge should be affected by points in fast casting just for a change

Apart from Hella good who don't wanna make up a skill anyone else got any skills they wanna make up ?

moo moo · May 10, 2006, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Well i agree that FC needs a nice boost. If they dont change it i rly dont care because i will still like my mezmer the most. But u have to realize any decent PVE team u wont need MS. By the time MS gets off its a waste beacuse they are already dead almost(Being a ele primary) Now being a Me/E u run dual attunments with a 2-2.5sec MS. Wow u lose a little dmg but u can through it out and get the KD also reacharge is 60 sec i think so energy isnt a problem. Now in the new elite missions MS is just a pian because it will get interrupted or u will die before u get it off when being a ele primary. As a mezmer u can throw it rather quick at them if aggro is blown and make them run away from u and monkeys

I love my ele but i love FC even more. Plus Male Mez FOW is AWESOME. Dont bash mez nuker's i also play any type of mezmer i just like to throw rocks at people sometimes. The only better ele is flag runner HP spammer, or earth is better for a ele primary IMO. A Me/E with gale is fun as hell also, that more pvp though.

Maybe your should start the same thread somewhere else to get GW attention

Edit i know i cant type

Themis · May 10, 2006, 10:53 PM // 22:53

FC is perfect. Along with Mesmers decent recharge spell times and 10-15 usual spell costs, the only FC side effect is that energy goes away too fast.

But inspiration balances all that. So, it's ok as it is

Beat_Go_Stick · May 10, 2006, 11:14 PM // 23:14

I don't see anything wrong Fast Casting. I remember one of the first times I entered Random Arena as a Mesmer (heh, I was a Me/R with points in FC, Dom, Illusion, and Marks

), I encountered a N/Me. He started to cast Backfire so I cast Backfire on him first (even though I didn't start until after him). Then hit him with Phantom Pain and Shatter Delusions before he managed to get his Vamp Gaze off and die from Backfire.

I'm not trying to say that this was uber of me or anything like that, just that I managed to let loose 3 skills totalling 5.25 seconds in less than 4 seconds. That's a pretty solid PvP ability, in my book.

The only suggestion I would make is to make the Mesmer's Fast Casting apply to the time inbetween spells as well as the casting time of the spells themselves. I don't really understand why it doesn't...